Sorry for writing in English, i can read the topics on this forum but im worthless in writing in German. I have inherited a DKW Munga from my Dad that had not been on the road for a couple of years. Yesterday i got it inspected and its now back on the road. Ive got a question about the ignition, to get the timing right i have the grundplatte at it max range to get the nr 2 ignition correct. What does this mean? can i adjust this or does the engine need a overhaul.
Many thanks for your help and please respond in German.
Do you own a manual? Did you mount new points? Has the distance of the points been adjusted to 0.4mm in the fully opened state? Burnt points are unadjustable I'm afraid. So it's worth a closer look. Also corrosion of the points may occur.
Have you taken care of these essentials?
Hallo Jacob. Hast Du ein Handbuch? Sind neue Unterbrecherkontakte montiert? Ist der Unterbrecherkontaktabstand auf 0,4mm im geöffneten Zustand eingestellt? Verbrannte Kontakte lassen sich kaum einstellen. Kontakte können auch stark korrodieren.
Many thanks for your reply. Yes i own a copy of the old Dutch Arm manual, i replaced the points and set them to 0.4 mm and put the timing to 3mm Frühzündung, but its at its max can't adjust it any further.
That's a lot already! I'd aprecciate a dutch manual! Never saw one for real! Congrats!
If nr.1 & 3 are perfectly adjustable somewhere mid range and only nr. 2 is off range then the crankshaft may be twisted. You may set each piston in top dead centre and mark the v-belt pulley after mounting a suitable needle alongside. A piece of thread or cardbord may do the job. Then you're able to measure the distance between the marks with a tape. You may also calculate the three angles then. I'm not sure where the limits are but if your measurement corresponds to the nr.2-adjusting problem then a crankshaft- or general engine-overhaul is probably the next step.
But still two questions: Does your "Grundplatte" allow the individual circular movement of every point? And has someone ever pulled off the "finger" on the rear end of the camshaft? It´s easy to offset it when pushing it back on the shaft.
Wenn Zylinder 1 und 3 nahe der Mittelstellung gut einstellbar sind und nur der zweite Zylinder außerhalb der Einstellmöglichkeit ist, dann kann die Kurbelwelle verdreht sein. Du kannst jeden Kolben in OT bringen und Markierungen auf der Keilriemenscheibe anbringen. Vorher einen passenden Zeiger aus Draht oder Pappe anbringen. Dann kannst Du die Distanz zwischen den Markierungen mit einem Bandmass messen und sogar die Winkel ausrechnen. Ich weiß nicht welche Winkeldifferenzen zulässig sind, aber wenn die Messung zu der Tatsache passt, dass sich der zweite Zylinder nicht einstellen lässt, dann wird wahrscheinlich eine Kurbelwellenüberholung nötig sein. Oft sind dann noch andere Dinge am Motor zu machen.
Es gibt aber noch Fragen: Erlaubt die Grundplatte die kreisbogenförmige Verstellung jedes einzelnen Kontaktpaars (oder lässt sich nur der Abstand einstellen)? Hat mal jemand den Mitnehmerfinger am hinteren Ende der Unterbrechernockenwelle abgezogen und vielleicht verdreht wieder aufgesteckt?
Fahrgestellnummer und insbesondere Motornummer sind meines Erachtens wichtig um zu prüfen, welches Variante (Nato oder Zivilmotor) aktuell montiert ist.
All points can move full range in the grundplatte, and all of them are almost maxed out to have to cylinders correctly timed. I did not know that the finger can come off the camshaft, will have to check or i can move it to get the camshaft into midrange again. Currently im on holiday but when im back i will get the engine number and frame number, not sure if the frame number will have much value, my dad also used a donor car from which i think the registration comes. Freddy not sure where you live in NL if your near Eindhoven you could swing by and scan/ copy the manual.
That's a lot already! I'd aprecciate a dutch manual! Never saw one for real! Congrats! Freddy
Falls es nicht bekannt sein sollte.... Es gab diverse "dienstgeheime" Handbücher bei der NL Armee zu unserem Munga, Die Einführung erfolgte im März 1963, mithin mit der Auslieferung der ersten Serienfahrzeuge im April 1963. Den Besonderheiten der NL-Ausstattung wurde dabei Rechnung getragen und die Unterschiede bei den Anleitungen berücksichtigt. Also nicht nur "Übersetzung"!
Diese "Bücher" nannten sich beispielsweise technische Handleiding Nr. 9-1346 Veld-en Basis Onderhoud van de Vrachtauto, Munga..... oder diverse Unterlagen (Bücher) entsprechend unserer Betriebsanleitungen usw.
Komplette Sätze dürften erfahrungsgemäß seit Jahrzehnten nur als absolute Rarität auf dem Markt sein, einzelne Ausgaben werden immer wieder im Original angeboten.
if all points are somewhere near their individual maximum range I personally think that your crankshaft mustn´t be written off at this time. Maybe the finger shows some wear and has to much space in the slot of the flyweight.
I recommend measuring the top dead of each cylinder and having a closer look on the back of the points housing. It´s a mere four srews away, only. Some good photos could be helpful too. Put them in here with picr.de
As far as the manual is concerned: I´m residing near Dortmund. ;-) And I´m not keen of owning an dutch manual or related prints, just curious. But I wanted to mention that you own something treasurelike. Take care of it!
Hallo Jacob,
wenn alle Unterbrecher nahe Maximum stehen, dann muss die Kurbelwelle noch nicht verloren gegeben werden. Vielleicht ist ja der Mitnehmer verschlissen und hat Luft im Ausschnitt des Fliehgewichts.
Ich empfehle die OT-Vermessung und einen genaueren Blick auf die Rückseite des Unterbrechergehäuses. Sind ja nur 4 Schrauben. Ein paar gute Fotos könnten auch helfen. Du kannst dazu picr.de nutzen.
Got the ignition working a bit better now but still loose a cylinder once in a while when the engine is hot. I did check the Resistors and noticed that 2 of the 3 give out a voltage of 18 to 19 volts the other one gives the correct 12 volts. i did find some other resistors and replaced the two "bad" once but this did not help. any advice?
if you run the Ignition Coils with more than the suggested 12V then you might have shot them.
This explains your ``running bad when Hot´´ Problem.
Either the Coils, or the Resistors could be bad.
But remember, Change only one Part at the Time and then Test drive it.
And if you find a foul Part, throw it away imidiately , ohterwise you put it back to Stock and use it again.
__________________________________________________ Deutscher durch Geburt, Pfälzer durch die Gnade Gottes Typreferent für Ford Capri I beim Ford Club Service
Some vehicle details, as requested. build in 1964 Original Chassis nr 3038022905 nato nr 2320-17 706-8490 in the end a different Chassis was used,nr 30501400
engine nr 8862030152. the old type plate shows engine nr 8862030768
I made a sketch to visualize some aspects of the electrical measurement that I think has to be done in your case.
I thought it over and I seriously doubt the voltage you mentioned.
So here is what needs to be verified in my opinion:
1.: Open the ignition-coils cover so that measurements can be taken directly at the clamps where the cables are mounted. 2.: Open the cover of the series-resistors so that you´re able to measure on both ends of each resistor. 3.: Open the breaker-points housing for the same purposes. 4.: Turn the crankshaft to fully open the breaker-point of the first cylinder (condition “I” in my sketch). 5.: Clamp your measuring device for a first measurement according to the following scetch to measure the first cylinders ignition-coil. 6.: Set your Multimeter to Volt and choose a range that allows values up to 30V the least if your Munga is a 24V-version, wich I believe it to be. 7.: Switch ON ignition but engine NOT RUNNING whilst measuring! 8.: Perform the measurements “A”, “B” and “C” at least once and note the values in the chart. (You may take two measurements for each position - one on each end of a connecting cable - do you have differing values? - so you could eventually find out about some rotten wires or clamps for example) 9.: Switch off ignition when pausing measurements since the other ignition coils are at risk of overheating as long as their breaker-points are closed. 10.: Turn the crankshaft to close the breaker point of the first cylinder (condition “II” in my drawing). 11.: Switch ON ignition but engine NOT RUNNING again! 12.: Perform and record the measurements “A”, “B” and “C” for the closed point. 13.: Switch off ignition again.
Then perform the same steps for cylinders 2 and 3.
Let us know what are the results, please. Then we will discuss them.
How to measure the ignition system of one cylinder (condition “I” – points open) I did not show the ignition switch or the suppressor element.
Condition “2” – points closed
The chart for ONE cylinder. You´ll need it three times ;-)
Heres what can be measured to find out the values of the different resistors in the wiring: (but note that the connections should be opened prior to any measuring)
This looks quite good. The coils seem to be authentic ones. The only parts I'd hava a closer look at are the breaker points. 0.6Ohm are quite a lot. You'd get a more powerful spark once you lower this resistance to, let's say, something below 0.2Ohm. You may clean the points surfaces with a metalcleaner (allow some time after putting it on) and some very very fine sanding paper. Best would be though to change the points. I'd send you one set of checked NOS ex-GDR points for DKW if you like.
Thanks for analyzing the system. The batteries stood without charge for a while before i started the project, they are OK for now but will need replacing at some point. Thanks for the offer of the set of points but i have a set of new made in the DDR point at home just didn't think i needed them yet. Still trying to figure out why the number 3 cylinder is not firing correctly!!
Ok, Jacob. Try changing the spark plug of the problematic cylinder first. The next step would be changing the ignition coil of that cylinder. Have a look at the outlet of the cover of the ignition coils for that specific cylinder too. I don't know which high-voltage harness your Munga has, but I already suffered from modifications which lacked the needed isolation. You could easily find that out when running the Munga without the cover.
It was the "Finger" between the Zundspule and the zundkabel, now its running great again. I also modified the ignition a little, after reading about the Pepetronic i decided i also wanted a electronic ignition. But as im not so good with electronics i bought some sensors and made them fit on a original grundplatte and modified Zündkontaktplatte.i modified a disc to fit the Unterbrsecher nocken with a magnet in it. I used the Transistor zundung treat in the Militarfahrzeug forum for the timing of the system, its not perfect yet but the engine already runs very nicely. i got lots of help from the company (http://sparcon.nl )that sold me the sensors, they gave some good advice for an electronics dummy like me.
there is still some work to do, i want to change the position on the zundkontactplatte as its only attached by one bolt to the grundplatte at the moment. but it is a fun project sofar.
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